I have been.
dun dun dun
training Critter.
*gasP*
I've had this dog for, oh three years now, and shes, well. Slow.
Iam not a very verbal person with my dogs, that is generally an advantage, but in this case perhaps not. I prefer using a mechanical marker for behaviors (ie Clicker) and for Chili I will occasionally use a "yes" but I prefer the clicker honestly. I just don't like talking I guess.
Critter decided long ago she wanted NOTHING to do with this clicker shit. Not for anything or anyone. Not for roast beef, not for chicken. She would run away and pant and shake like a dog on july fourth (ironically, july forth does not bother her)
When she went on antianxiety meds, this reduced a bit, so she no longer had siezures when I clicked, she simply ran as far away as she could and jammed herself in a corner.
This presents many annoying dilemas for me.
One...I can't clicker train her. Obviously. And yes I have tried introducing it at low level barely audible. She freaks.
two...I can no longer just carry a clicker and use it whenever, if I do I risk her being afraid of EVERYTHING
three...she can hear it through TWO DOORS. So That means, having to put her away and train whoever I want in another room. She also still freak out. So I still have to deal with a freaking out dog.
So, lately, I have dabbled in training the dumb one. Her meds have made her functional, so I began to teach her to "touch". This was a task and a half, but she got it. Then she began to offer a "cheating" touch...like...i'll get 1/2 inch from your hand and pull away. I NEVER reinforced this. I'd just ask for another touch and if she did it again, walked away. YET she continued and still continues to do this.
This really hurts my brain at this point. We have worked on this for MONTHS, and i have NEVER treated her after doing this behavior, but she still, on a regular basis offers it. And then she'll get like five in a row right, so I reinforce...and then she gets stupid again. Each time looking at me expectantly for a treat, fully believing she got it correct.
She also can't seem to, three days in, learn to "go to her mat" on cue. It has been AGONY trying to teach this...she just doesn't get it. She will look like it for like three reps...then it falls apart.
I begin to ponder brain damage possiblities.
then I was reading. Karon pryor talks about a thing one of her porpoises used to do...she'd dart in the gate, then back out again...expecting a fish. This was annoying, and frustrating...but mostly, she could not figure out WTH the dolphin was thinking...i mean, they never reinforced the darting back out, and they reinforced the going in heavily...why the heck was this happening.
Timing.
Turns out, a split second timing mistake created this. The dolphin has misunderstood and thought he had it right. They corrected the timing mistake and the behavior went away.
Then my lighbulb went on. Maybe Critter wasn't stupid...but maybe my verbal marker was not conditioned with her yet...in fact I had been kind of sloppy with it...marking a half momment late because I wasn't "serious" about training this dog. Turns out Critter is the one with the program and Iam the moron. The more I thought about it the more it made sense, I was marking the pulling away form my hand, not the touch, just that half second created a pulling away behavior...she thinks the pulling away is what Iam trying to mark.
Clever dog.
Bad human. Bad.
Thursday, July 29, 2010
Thursday, July 22, 2010
Why Iam done...part 1
why I am done...
Hiring trainers.
I've had three runs ins with trainers that I am paying to advise me on my dog...I did attend a seminar, that I adored, but I don't count that..:p
Once upon a time I tried getting Emma into agility. I was confident I could train the whole shebang myself, but didn't want to spend the money on the equipment. Mostly, more than anything I wanted to connect with other "dog people" in the real world, and also a dog trainer, because at that point in my life, I idolized most dog trainers, and had not learned that just because they were positive dog trainers, I may not like their methods.
I could not get into a class due to my sched, so I did the next best thing and hired a well known trainer, to do privates with Em and I at her facility. When I showed her list of acomplishments to people online, they were impressed and jealous that I was going to get to work with someone so talented.
I personally, very much enjoy researching people before and after I meet them, I read this womans profile on her site, read reviews and studied her picture with her dogs, I felt like I knew her a bit, so that way i'd be more comfortable.
As the day approached, I was increasingly nervous. I felt more like I was going to be meeting a celebrity than a dog trainer. So then I meet the woman.
She looked NOTHING like her picture, she was also a lot older than I anticipated, like THIRTY years older, its not like it was a younger picture either, there was zero resemblance. The tall, thin blonde I thought I was meeting was a short, elderly woman.
Nevertheless I still was polite and told her I was EXTREMELY nervous, so to pardon me. She seemed friendly, but not overly impressed with me or my dog. Just a casual, "Hi lets go back here"
Then it starts, I am a mental mess and my perfect dog says, "screw this jazz, moms nutty" and all the intense focus is gone. She begins to pull and wander and not bother to check in with me, then it happens.
The flies.
God must hate me, but he bestowed Emmas sworn enemies on us that day. The only thing this ball obsessed dog is more obsessed over, is flies.
The trainer then asks me to run Em through all her behaviors. I struggle to get her attention and I run her quickly through about 4-5 tricks, she does them for me, but immediately goes back to obsessing over the bugs. I am so nervous at this point, you'd think I was being attacked by a bear.
the trainer acts unamused and says pretty much nothing, she then takes us to the field were she tells me to run Em over these raised planks on the ground (like mini jumps) she gives no instructions really, just do it and reward when you are done.
So I run her over them, she tries to escape briefly and then I am told in a simplistic monotone voice what I did wrong, and to do it again. So I try to do it again, ommitting my mistakes only to be told again what I did not do right, no tips or hints on HOW not to do those things, just don't do that.
after about three tries and three failures, she takes us out to this tire jump and we take turns calling Em back and forth through it. At about the fifth time through she finally gets a bit of personality and exclaims "oh wow! Shes so operant" which, is dog training slang for a dog that readily OFFERS behaviors.
I remember making a face and thinking "no shes not... Are you high?" Em is the least operant dog I know...and calling her back and forth and slapping our hands to prompt her was hardly anything like a dog that offered a tire jump with no promps/cues. I took it as a compliment but wondered how the trainer could get this wrong.
then she decided that we should learn front crosses and rear crosses. I kinda wonder why she had us try so many things in that first fifteen mins, I think she was trying to find something I could function at, as I was still so nervous I was dropping things, stumbling over words and had lost my dogs attention. She kept talking to me in the slow, monotonous, simplistic lingo you use on a 3 year old that you just caught doing something bad. This did not help, because now I was positive she thought I was a moron.
I could not do the crosses to save my life...you have to run in a huge half circle, watch your dog, click at the right moment, and then throw your reward in the right spot....all this coupled with the fact it was 90 degs that day and the field was small and littered with agility equipment that I was certain I was going to plow into . I could barely run a straight line, let alone do this thing she hadn't explained well. And once again, she pointed out what I did wrong and when I would do it right, she'd say "good" in a simplistic tone, like I was three and she was faking it.
She also, the entire time, kept clicking for me. Which was honestly unneccessary and, in hindsight, insulting. I could see if I was missing things, but the one thing I did maintain, was my awesome timing. I have great timing and did not see any reason for her to click ontop of my click, I wasn't missing clicks.
She then pulled us aside and explained hand targeting over the course of what seemed like 5-10 mintutes...For contrast, you can explain this to an owner and have the dog doing the behavior in under five minutes. She talked slow and simple like I was a caveman who maybe spoke japanese.
So we go home. I feel like a tool, dog learned nothing, I am out thirty bucks.
Second session, week later. This time, I am less nervous, more like being attacked by a raccoon than a bear. She asks about the "homework" which was the crosses, and I was honest with her, my husband was out of town for four days, it was triple digits all week, I have a full time job and a puppy under six months old, I had not worked on them. I told her this was an exceptional week and I was not a slacker, but I had worked on the other stuff.
She was irritated for a moment, then said nothing and pulled out a mat and explained we were going to train "go to your mat"
I am at this point, beginning to question the heck out of this in my mind. Why are we moving on to more and more exercises without mastering anything? Why are we not staying on the exercises long enough to have success? Why? why? why? WTF.
She then explains to me, we are going to free shape the entire behavior. That means no prompts, no cues, no help, just click the dog for steps toward the right answer.
Finally I speak up. I had told her before that Em does not free shape yet, and that she will only offer her default if not given directions. The trainer disreguarded this and insisted we free shape.
so for twenty minutes I get closer and closer to tears as my poor dog (who is focused this time) stares at me waiting for me to show her wth I want. She never gets it. She eventually gives up and walks away from me.
I tried to help her once, by pointing at the mat and the trainer instantly jumped on me, I was not to help her, and that me helping her was a PROBLEM, the reason she can't do things is I don't allow her to make decisions. This confuses the heck out of me, because first of all, Emma did not have "problems" and I think I know my dog. The only problem at this point is you not letting me help her.
We go home. I cry in the car on the way.
The next day I teach her to go to her mat. Not just that, she lays on it, stays on it, and will go to it from up to ten feet away, sit, then down and stay until released, all in under five minutes. Gee whiz, what problems this dog has :p
I email the trainer and explain what I did, and to question why it was important to her the behavior be shaped in the way she insisted. She ignored my email and instead asked if I could reschedual my next appointment. I fired her.
I guess I did learn though....but the intention was for the dog to learn. Don't click for others (unless they say its ok) don't talk to people like they are vegetables, don't try and train agility in mid july, and don't decide you like som'one before you talk to them. That last one will disapoint you heavily if it doesn't pan out.
Hiring trainers.
I've had three runs ins with trainers that I am paying to advise me on my dog...I did attend a seminar, that I adored, but I don't count that..:p
Once upon a time I tried getting Emma into agility. I was confident I could train the whole shebang myself, but didn't want to spend the money on the equipment. Mostly, more than anything I wanted to connect with other "dog people" in the real world, and also a dog trainer, because at that point in my life, I idolized most dog trainers, and had not learned that just because they were positive dog trainers, I may not like their methods.
I could not get into a class due to my sched, so I did the next best thing and hired a well known trainer, to do privates with Em and I at her facility. When I showed her list of acomplishments to people online, they were impressed and jealous that I was going to get to work with someone so talented.
I personally, very much enjoy researching people before and after I meet them, I read this womans profile on her site, read reviews and studied her picture with her dogs, I felt like I knew her a bit, so that way i'd be more comfortable.
As the day approached, I was increasingly nervous. I felt more like I was going to be meeting a celebrity than a dog trainer. So then I meet the woman.
She looked NOTHING like her picture, she was also a lot older than I anticipated, like THIRTY years older, its not like it was a younger picture either, there was zero resemblance. The tall, thin blonde I thought I was meeting was a short, elderly woman.
Nevertheless I still was polite and told her I was EXTREMELY nervous, so to pardon me. She seemed friendly, but not overly impressed with me or my dog. Just a casual, "Hi lets go back here"
Then it starts, I am a mental mess and my perfect dog says, "screw this jazz, moms nutty" and all the intense focus is gone. She begins to pull and wander and not bother to check in with me, then it happens.
The flies.
God must hate me, but he bestowed Emmas sworn enemies on us that day. The only thing this ball obsessed dog is more obsessed over, is flies.
The trainer then asks me to run Em through all her behaviors. I struggle to get her attention and I run her quickly through about 4-5 tricks, she does them for me, but immediately goes back to obsessing over the bugs. I am so nervous at this point, you'd think I was being attacked by a bear.
the trainer acts unamused and says pretty much nothing, she then takes us to the field were she tells me to run Em over these raised planks on the ground (like mini jumps) she gives no instructions really, just do it and reward when you are done.
So I run her over them, she tries to escape briefly and then I am told in a simplistic monotone voice what I did wrong, and to do it again. So I try to do it again, ommitting my mistakes only to be told again what I did not do right, no tips or hints on HOW not to do those things, just don't do that.
after about three tries and three failures, she takes us out to this tire jump and we take turns calling Em back and forth through it. At about the fifth time through she finally gets a bit of personality and exclaims "oh wow! Shes so operant" which, is dog training slang for a dog that readily OFFERS behaviors.
I remember making a face and thinking "no shes not... Are you high?" Em is the least operant dog I know...and calling her back and forth and slapping our hands to prompt her was hardly anything like a dog that offered a tire jump with no promps/cues. I took it as a compliment but wondered how the trainer could get this wrong.
then she decided that we should learn front crosses and rear crosses. I kinda wonder why she had us try so many things in that first fifteen mins, I think she was trying to find something I could function at, as I was still so nervous I was dropping things, stumbling over words and had lost my dogs attention. She kept talking to me in the slow, monotonous, simplistic lingo you use on a 3 year old that you just caught doing something bad. This did not help, because now I was positive she thought I was a moron.
I could not do the crosses to save my life...you have to run in a huge half circle, watch your dog, click at the right moment, and then throw your reward in the right spot....all this coupled with the fact it was 90 degs that day and the field was small and littered with agility equipment that I was certain I was going to plow into . I could barely run a straight line, let alone do this thing she hadn't explained well. And once again, she pointed out what I did wrong and when I would do it right, she'd say "good" in a simplistic tone, like I was three and she was faking it.
She also, the entire time, kept clicking for me. Which was honestly unneccessary and, in hindsight, insulting. I could see if I was missing things, but the one thing I did maintain, was my awesome timing. I have great timing and did not see any reason for her to click ontop of my click, I wasn't missing clicks.
She then pulled us aside and explained hand targeting over the course of what seemed like 5-10 mintutes...For contrast, you can explain this to an owner and have the dog doing the behavior in under five minutes. She talked slow and simple like I was a caveman who maybe spoke japanese.
So we go home. I feel like a tool, dog learned nothing, I am out thirty bucks.
Second session, week later. This time, I am less nervous, more like being attacked by a raccoon than a bear. She asks about the "homework" which was the crosses, and I was honest with her, my husband was out of town for four days, it was triple digits all week, I have a full time job and a puppy under six months old, I had not worked on them. I told her this was an exceptional week and I was not a slacker, but I had worked on the other stuff.
She was irritated for a moment, then said nothing and pulled out a mat and explained we were going to train "go to your mat"
I am at this point, beginning to question the heck out of this in my mind. Why are we moving on to more and more exercises without mastering anything? Why are we not staying on the exercises long enough to have success? Why? why? why? WTF.
She then explains to me, we are going to free shape the entire behavior. That means no prompts, no cues, no help, just click the dog for steps toward the right answer.
Finally I speak up. I had told her before that Em does not free shape yet, and that she will only offer her default if not given directions. The trainer disreguarded this and insisted we free shape.
so for twenty minutes I get closer and closer to tears as my poor dog (who is focused this time) stares at me waiting for me to show her wth I want. She never gets it. She eventually gives up and walks away from me.
I tried to help her once, by pointing at the mat and the trainer instantly jumped on me, I was not to help her, and that me helping her was a PROBLEM, the reason she can't do things is I don't allow her to make decisions. This confuses the heck out of me, because first of all, Emma did not have "problems" and I think I know my dog. The only problem at this point is you not letting me help her.
We go home. I cry in the car on the way.
The next day I teach her to go to her mat. Not just that, she lays on it, stays on it, and will go to it from up to ten feet away, sit, then down and stay until released, all in under five minutes. Gee whiz, what problems this dog has :p
I email the trainer and explain what I did, and to question why it was important to her the behavior be shaped in the way she insisted. She ignored my email and instead asked if I could reschedual my next appointment. I fired her.
I guess I did learn though....but the intention was for the dog to learn. Don't click for others (unless they say its ok) don't talk to people like they are vegetables, don't try and train agility in mid july, and don't decide you like som'one before you talk to them. That last one will disapoint you heavily if it doesn't pan out.
Thursday, July 15, 2010
Coin tossing
I remember being six years old. I remember kindergarden, and first grade. I can see the classrooms and the chalkboards. I can remember what direction the rooms faced in context to the rest of the building. I can remember the girl who sat a little to the front and side of me, had no fingernails...and that creeped the heck out of me.
I remember my first "nap time". They had us drag out these blue mats and lay them down, and then the teacher commanded us to nap. I remember being confused and like I did for much of my early years in school, I just watched the others and copied them, no questions asked. I laid on my mat.
I remember laying there, and the window over the other kid next to me shoulder. I remember all the kids closing their eyes. I remember thinking they had all done this before and I hadn't. I remember thinking "sleeping? now? Its daytime. Theres no blanket. Um Ok".
So I pretended to nap.
strangely I only remember this first nap experience. Surely we did this daily for over a year, but I only remember this one time. In fact, once I closed my eyes to "fake nap" the memory disapates. I don't recall getting up to put the mat away.
I often think about why I remember what I do. I have really bad memory problems. Both short and long term. I remember images, places and faces, but I dont' remember why. I can see a person and recognize them, but not remember our previous convo. I can remember going to a place with friends, but not which friends went with me.
So we come to the coins.
In first grade they begin to teach you about money. They have these paperboard coin photos you pop out and you can move them around on your desk. I remember them like it was yesterday. The texture, the wieght of them. The way the little preforations left bumps on the edges. I recall them being darker than their real counterparts.
But then I think, why do I remember these things so well? Like the mat and the nap, there was an emotional association that was strong so they imprinted on me. Confusion.
For som' reason I didn't understand the concept of money well at 6. When som'one says "the nickel is five" I had no idea what that meant. My interpretation of this explaination was "the nickel HAS A FIVE ON IT" at least I think thats what I thought...In fact I mostly remember being frustrated at my little paper nickels. Heres why.
My mom.
Yup, you guessed it, my first "blame my mom" post. Long time comming I suppose.
I remember her distinctly being mad and frustrated with me that I couldn't get this easy concept. I vividly remember her behind me at the table, hovering over me, jabbing her finger at the paper coins expressing her displeasure in me because I couldn't get it. I remember som'thing along the lines of "your smart, ugh why can't you get this, you must be messing with me" being said.
I most certainly was not "messing" with her, or being stubborn. Or trying to make her angry. Making her angry scared me at 6. I was trying, but I just wasn't getting it.
I did one day obviously learn to count money. Iam a cashier and a half now and count money so fast it would make your head spin. Som' one else must have taught me, probably my teacher, or another student. I do not for the life of me remember how, when or where I got it. But I still, at 28 can vividly remember failing at it.
I suppose then, confusion creates memories. They can be neutral, or very aversive, I suppose they can be positive also. I try to remember these things when I teach things to people and animals. They learn faster that way.
One must be careful when training sensitive beings. They may remember stuff you don't want them too.
I remember my first "nap time". They had us drag out these blue mats and lay them down, and then the teacher commanded us to nap. I remember being confused and like I did for much of my early years in school, I just watched the others and copied them, no questions asked. I laid on my mat.
I remember laying there, and the window over the other kid next to me shoulder. I remember all the kids closing their eyes. I remember thinking they had all done this before and I hadn't. I remember thinking "sleeping? now? Its daytime. Theres no blanket. Um Ok".
So I pretended to nap.
strangely I only remember this first nap experience. Surely we did this daily for over a year, but I only remember this one time. In fact, once I closed my eyes to "fake nap" the memory disapates. I don't recall getting up to put the mat away.
I often think about why I remember what I do. I have really bad memory problems. Both short and long term. I remember images, places and faces, but I dont' remember why. I can see a person and recognize them, but not remember our previous convo. I can remember going to a place with friends, but not which friends went with me.
So we come to the coins.
In first grade they begin to teach you about money. They have these paperboard coin photos you pop out and you can move them around on your desk. I remember them like it was yesterday. The texture, the wieght of them. The way the little preforations left bumps on the edges. I recall them being darker than their real counterparts.
But then I think, why do I remember these things so well? Like the mat and the nap, there was an emotional association that was strong so they imprinted on me. Confusion.
For som' reason I didn't understand the concept of money well at 6. When som'one says "the nickel is five" I had no idea what that meant. My interpretation of this explaination was "the nickel HAS A FIVE ON IT" at least I think thats what I thought...In fact I mostly remember being frustrated at my little paper nickels. Heres why.
My mom.
Yup, you guessed it, my first "blame my mom" post. Long time comming I suppose.
I remember her distinctly being mad and frustrated with me that I couldn't get this easy concept. I vividly remember her behind me at the table, hovering over me, jabbing her finger at the paper coins expressing her displeasure in me because I couldn't get it. I remember som'thing along the lines of "your smart, ugh why can't you get this, you must be messing with me" being said.
I most certainly was not "messing" with her, or being stubborn. Or trying to make her angry. Making her angry scared me at 6. I was trying, but I just wasn't getting it.
I did one day obviously learn to count money. Iam a cashier and a half now and count money so fast it would make your head spin. Som' one else must have taught me, probably my teacher, or another student. I do not for the life of me remember how, when or where I got it. But I still, at 28 can vividly remember failing at it.
I suppose then, confusion creates memories. They can be neutral, or very aversive, I suppose they can be positive also. I try to remember these things when I teach things to people and animals. They learn faster that way.
One must be careful when training sensitive beings. They may remember stuff you don't want them too.
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